Of Vladimir Putin – 05/06/2018
Source: Aurora site
In view of the visit to Austria, the President of Russia answered the questions of the presenter of the Austrian ORF, Armin Wolf.
Armin Wolf, presentatore dell’Austrian Broadcasting Corporation (ORF): Mr President, his first visit abroad takes you to Austria. This is a sort of incentive for a benevolent policy towards Russia on the part of the Austrian government, who lashes out against new EU sanctions and has not expelled Russian diplomats over the "Skripal case"?
President of Russia Vladimir Putin: I don't think that a European state as respected as Austria needs incentives. We have long had good and deep relations with Austria. Austria is our traditional and reliable partner in Europe. Despite all the complications over the years, our dialogue in the field of politics, of security and the economy has never been interrupted. Our trade with Austria has grown by 40,5% last year. We respect Austria's position and its neutral status. Russia, Obviously, is one of the guarantors of this status, having taken part in the drafting of the State Treaty. We collaborate with the Republic of Austria in various sectors: in the economy, like I said, in politics and security. In the economy, we collaborate in various sectors. Not just energy, although I would like to say more about it later, but also in aircraft construction, aviation safety and hydroelectric engineering. More and more Austrian capital is invested in Russia. We consider it a sign of confidence in the economic policy pursued by the Government of the Russian Federation. We take on important projects. Thanks to our cooperation, Baumgarten, and therefore Austria, it has become the largest gas hub in Europe. We have many common and similar interests, so we were happy to welcome Federal Chancellor Kurtz to Russia, in February. It is from these considerations that my visit to Austria is being prepared and I hope it will take place soon.
Armin Wolf: The Russian government partially maintains good relations with some members of the Austrian government. In the 2016, the United Russia party signed a partnership agreement with the Free Party of Austria. Because this party in particular?
Vladimir Putin: You stated that the Russian government maintains good relations with Austria and followed this analysis from a purely party perspective. I was a co-founder of the United Russia party, but I do not currently join it because I am the head of the Russian state. It is true that the Russian government works very directly and deeply with its Austrian colleagues without showing political preferences. Regarding policy towards Austria, we have a certain national consensus, there are no political forces that oppose the development of relations with Austria, but there may be some preferences at the political level, at the party level. The fact that United Russia has established relations with the party you mentioned, these are purely inter-party relations. I am sure that United Russia will be happy to develop contacts with other political forces as well.
Armin Wolf: He led this party for a long time, now Mr. Medvedev is its boss. Many observers believe that Russian leaders would like to, through United Russia, maintain ties with nationalist parties because they want to divide the European Union. How it explains the close ties between the Russian leadership and parties critical of the European Union?
Vladimir Putin: It would be better if you asked this question to Prime Minister Medvedev, who is the head of the party. But this is what I can say with a fair degree of certainty. It is not our goal to divide anything or anyone in Europe. On the contrary, we want to see a united and prosperous European Union, because the European Union is our largest commercial and economic partner. There are more problems in the European Union, the greater the risks and uncertainties for us. The simple fact that our trade with European Union countries has halved, from beyond 400 billion a 250 billion, speaks for itself. Why should we see the further decline? Why break up the European Union to suffer further losses and incur costs or lose benefits from cooperation with the European Union? On the contrary, we must increase cooperation with the European Union. If we work or work more intensely with some than with others, we proceed from purely pragmatic considerations. We try to cooperate with those who publicly declare that they are ready and willing to collaborate with us. This alone is why our parties, Political groups and movements have contacts at political and party level with some Europeans, and not the desire to "overshadow" or hinder anything in the European Union. We have the 40 percent of our gold and euro reserves. Why should we shake this up, including the single European currency, as a consequence of the upheavals in the Union? I would like you to abandon this idea in Austria and the other countries of the European Union.
Armin Wolf: Nonetheless, the governments of Western countries, of Europe and, first of all, of the United States, they accuse Russia of using hackers to meddle in the internal politics of other countries. In all your interviews you say that's not the case; However, there is no doubt that the so-called St. Petersburg Internet Research Agency has for years tried to influence the public debate on Facebook. These so-called troll factories are owned by Yevgeny Prigozhin, he knows him very well, He is called "Putin's chef", as it pleases all its guests. It is good that a person who has such close relations with the Russian leadership runs troll factories?
Vladimir Putin: He said “Russia” and then moved on to the hackers, vero? Saying “Russia”, he meant Russia as a state, or some citizens, hackers or legal entities?
Armin Wolf: I was talking about Mr. Prigozhin.
Vladimir Putin: I will tell you about Mr. Prigozhin. Make a distinction between Russian government, Russia as a state, Russian citizens and some legal entities. You just said that Mr. Prigozhin is referred to as “Putin's chef”. Actually, runs a catering business, it's his job; he is a restaurateur from St. Petersburg. But now let me ask you: really think that a person who works in catering, although it has some hacking opportunities and owns a private company engaged in this activity, I don't even know what it does, could influence elections in the United States or a European country? It may be that media and political standards in established Western countries have been reduced to such a low level that a Russian restaurateur can influence voters in a European country or the United States? It's not ridiculous?
Armin Wolf: Mr President, it could be good or bad, but it's not the truth. Mr. Prigozhin doesn't just run restaurants, has many companies with contracts with the Ministry of Defense and receive many government orders; spends millions of dollars in the factory of trolls and people who write posts there. Because a restaurateur needs it?
Vladimir Putin: You can ask him. Russia as a state has nothing to do with it.
Armin Wolf: But he knows the man very well.
Vladimir Putin: And then? I know many in St. Petersburg and Moscow. Ask him. There is a guy in the United States, Soros, which interferes in the affairs of the whole world. I often hear from my American friends that “the USA as a state has nothing to do with its activities”. There are rumors that Soros now plans to destabilize the euro. Experts are already discussing it. Ask the State Department why they do this. The State Department will say it has nothing to do with it, rather Soros business. For us, it's Mr. Prigozhin's business. This is my answer. He is satisfied with it?
Armin Wolf: Mr. Prigozhin, together with others 12 Russian citizens, was indicted in the United States for interfering in the presidential election. You and Donald Trump talk so well on the phone, but Trump has been president for a year and a half and there has not yet been a bilateral summit between you, unlike Bush and Obama whom they met in the first six months of their presidencies. Why does it take so long?
Vladimir Putin: You should ask our colleagues in the United States. In my opinion, this is the result of the current acute political struggle in the United States. Effectively, Donald Trump and me, first, we met several times in various international locations and, secondly, we talk regularly on the phone. Our Foreign Departments and special services work quite well together in areas of mutual interest, especially in the fight against international terrorism. This work continues. As for personal meetings, I think the possibility of these meetings depends to a large extent on the internal political situation in the United States. The congressional election campaign is about to start and then there will be the next presidential elections, and the president of the United States will be attacked on various issues. I think this is the main reason. In a recent telephone conversation, Donald said he was worried about the possibility of a new arms race. I fully agree with him. However, to prevent it (we have not initiated such events, we did not withdraw from the Missile Defense Treaty, we have only responded to the threats posed to us by this, but I agree with the president of the United States) we should think about it, we should do something about it, give corresponding instructions to our Foreign Office and the United States Department of State. Experts should start working in a concrete way. I hope one day this works, in the interests of the United States and Russia, indeed in the interest of the whole world, begin, even among us personally.
Armin Wolf: Many are concerned about the situation in North Korea. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov recently visited it. He thinks a nuclear confrontation between the United States and North Korea is a possibility?
Vladimir Putin: I don't even want to think about it. It's a scary idea. Russia, of all countries, it is not interested because North Korea is our neighbor. Incidentally, one of the nuclear test sites, what I think North Korea is closing, is found, if my memory serves me correctly, a 190 kilometers from the Russian border. It's something absolutely real for us. Therefore, We will do everything we can to ease tensions on the Korean Peninsula. So, naturally, We have high hopes for a personal meeting between President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, because mutual statements went too far. I think this way, the road to the denuclearization of North Korea, it should be a two-way street. If the leader of North Korea backs up his intentions with practical actions, for example, giving up new tests with ballistic missiles, new nuclear tests, the other party should reciprocate in a tangible way. About this, I consider it counterproductive to continue military activities, military exercises and everything connected to them. I sincerely hope that the situation proceeds in a positive way. For our part, we are ready to make every effort in this regard. We have always been in contact with the North Korean leadership; We offer several trilateral joint economic projects. These are infrastructure projects, a railway from Russia to North Korea and beyond to South Korea, the pipeline project, work in the energy sector in a three-way or perhaps four-way format with China. Incidentally, China has done a lot to steer the situation towards détente and denuclearization. If we put our efforts together, also within the framework of the Russia-China road map, our joint proposal to solve the North Korean nuclear problem, I think we will get the desired results.
Armin Wolf: One of the most complicated problems for Russia is Ukraine. In the 2014, Flight MH17 was shot down in Ukraine, 290 people died. The international investigative commission announced a few days ago that the jet was shot down by a Russian army missile system, that it was a convoy from Russia arriving from Ukrainian rebels in eastern Ukraine. There is a video; there are telephone conversations and dozens of eyewitnesses. He said this hasn't been true for about a year, but practically no one believes his words. He is therefore not questioning the veracity of the Russian statements? Perhaps it is time to recognize that insurgents in eastern Ukraine used Russian military equipment to commit that horrendous crime?
Vladimir Putin: I want to emphasize that both sides of the conflict, the Ukrainian army and even the Ukrainian volunteer battalions that are not accountable to any of their commanders, and the Donbas militias, the armed units of Donbass, they all use Soviet and Russian weapons. Everyone. The two sides have all the systems: and firearms, aircraft and anti-aircraft systems. All produced in Russia.
Armin Wolf: But now they know what the missile was: a missile from the system Buk. It was a brigade of the Russian army in Kursk. This is known for a fact, yet he still denies it. Wouldn't it be better to admit that the missile actually came from Russia? Wouldn't it be better to officially recognize that Russia supported the insurgents in eastern Ukraine with weapons?
Vladimir Putin: If you have patience and let me finish, you will know my opinion on this issue. Like I said, both sides use Russian-made weapons, and the Russian army has exactly the same systems that experts talk about, which certainly were manufactured in the former Soviet Union or Russia. This is one. Due. Russian experts were denied access to the investigation, our arguments are not taken into consideration and no one on the commission is interested in hearing from us. Vice versa, the Ukrainian side, interested in the results of the investigation, has access to it. In the meantime, is responsible at least for not having prohibited civilian aircraft from flying in the conflict zone in violation of ICAO international standards. We still cannot have answers to some questions about the activities of the Ukrainian Air Force in that region, in that place and at that time. The tragedy we are talking about is terrible and I feel immensely sorry for the victims and their families, but this investigation must be objective and complete. Just a second, Please, don't run. Let me talk, otherwise we will have his monologue instead of an interview.
Armin Wolf: However, let me say this briefly: Yes, we know where the missile came from. But what do Holland have to gain, Australia or Malaysia blaming Russia if it wasn't a missile belonging to the Russian army?
Vladimir Putin: We don't see it that way; we have a different point of view. Now you have listed countries that supposedly believe that it was a Russian missile and that Russia was implicated in such a terrible tragedy. I'm sorry to disappoint you. Recently, Malaysian officials said they did not see Russia's complicity in that tragic event; they have no evidence that Russia is involved. He knew nothing about it? He has not seen statements from Malaysian officials? What do we think about this problem? If we really want to get to the bottom of things in that horrendous event and reveal all the factors that will allow us to draw a definitive conclusion, all arguments should be taken into consideration, including those offered by Russia. And it would be entirely right for Russian experts to have access to the investigation.
Armin Wolf: The International Investigative Committee now claims that it has indeed considered all arguments. Many do not believe the Russian arguments because a few years ago in Crimea he said that the famous “green men”, the fighters in green uniforms without identifying insignia, they were local self-defense forces. But shortly thereafter it was revealed that they were indeed Russian soldiers. After, he admitted several times that they were from the Russian army even though he had denied it before. Why we should believe you now?
Vladimir Putin: Now that you mentioned Crimea. You know that in the middle years 2000, right in the vicinity of Crimea, a Russian civilian jet was shot down over the Black Sea? It was the work of the Ukrainian army during an exercise. And the first reaction of Ukrainian officials was that Ukraine had nothing to do with it. A civilian plane was shot down en route from Israel to Russia. Everyone on board died, Obviously. Ukraine categorically denied involvement in that terrible incident, but he had to admit it later. And why should we believe Ukrainian officials? So, in response to your question about Crimea, I put the ball back in his court.
Armin Wolf: I'm not talking about Ukrainian officials, I'm talking about her. He said many times in the 2014 which sent armed forces to Crimea to block Ukraine's interference. He later admitted that the Russian army was in Crimea, something he had previously denied.
Vladimir Putin: Russian forces have always been stationed there. Sit, I wish he would try to figure out what was going on there, not just repeating such things mechanically. Russian forces have always been present in Crimea. Our military contingent was there. One second, Please, let me finish. He wants me to answer questions without interruption or listen to my answers? The first thing we did when the events in Ukraine began… What kind of events? Let me tell you now, and will say yes or no. It was an unconstitutional armed coup and seizure of power. Yes or no? What will he tell me?
Armin Wolf: I am not an expert on the Ukrainian Constitution.
Vladimir Putin: It doesn't have to be; you just need to be an expert in the law, on the constitutional law of any country.
Armin Wolf: I don't want to talk about Ukrainian politics, but of Russian politics. Let me put it differently. What would have to happen for Russia to return Crimea to Ukraine?
Vladimir Putin: There are no such conditions and never will be. I'll tell you why. He interrupted me again, but if he really lets me finish, you would understand what I mean. I'll do it again. When the unconstitutional armed coup took place in Ukraine, and power passed from hand to hand by force, our army was legally deployed in Crimea, with the agreement on our military base there. The first thing we did was increase the contingent to protect our Armed Forces, our military structures, because we had immediately seen that they were threatened. This is where it all began. I told you with certainty that there was no one else there, but our Armed Forces were legally with an agreement. Let me finish, for the love of God. (Speak in German) Be so kind, let me say something. (Please be kind enough to let me say something).
Armin Wolf: I hate to interrupt you, but this is not the Russian Black Sea Fleet. It was certainly based on it. These are those fighters in uniform without insignia. He said they were Crimeans, but they were not Crimeans; they were Russian soldiers.
Vladimir Putin: I'll get there, please be patient. We have enough time. Our military had always been stationed there. I said: our military was there, but they were not involved. But when the unconstitutional actions in Ukraine began to unfold, when people in Crimea felt in danger, when trains started bringing aggressive nationalists there, when buses and personal vehicles were blocked, people naturally wanted to protect themselves. And the first thing that happened was the restoration of the rights that Ukraine itself had granted with the autonomy of Crimea. This is where it all began, with a procedure in parliament to establish independence from Ukraine. Ora, this is strictly prohibited by the United Nations Charter? No it's not. The right of nations to self-determination is clearly stated there. And what our Armed Forces did, even without expanding the contingent established by the military base agreement? They ensured independent free elections, expression of the will of the people living in Crimea. On purpose, the decision to hold this referendum was made by the Crimean parliament, elected in strict accordance with the Constitution and laws of Ukraine before such events. Therefore, nothing illegal... Just a second.
Armin Wolf: As far as I know, parliament has no right to make this decision. But let's continue our conversation. The annexation of Crimea was the first time in Europe that a country was annexed by another against its will. This was seen as a threat by neighboring states, from Poland to the Baltic States, because it was assumed that minorities in these countries could also receive protection from Russian forces.
Vladimir Putin: on, if you don't like my answers, then don't ask me questions. But if you want to hear my opinion on the issues I raise, must have patience. I have to finish. As, Crimea gained independence through the free will of Crimeans expressed in an open referendum, not as a result of invading Russian forces. Talk about annexation, but we can call a referendum held by all the people living in the annexation region? So Kosovo's self-determination was also annexation. Why doesn't it say that Kosovo was annexed after the invasion of NATO troops? He doesn't say it. Talk about the right to self-determination of Kosovars. The Kosovars did this only with a parliamentary decision, while the Crimean criminals did so with a referendum, with a voter turnout higher than 90%, the people living in Crimea voted for independence and then to join Russia, with the same voter turnout, il 90 percentage. This is not democracy? What is it then? And what is democracy?
Armin Wolf: Mr President, the referendum was still unconstitutional.
Vladimir Putin: Why?
Armin Wolf: Did not comply with Ukrainian legislation, the Ukrainian Constitution. It was not a free referendum, say Western observers. As for what you say about Kosovo, you called Kosovo's declaration of independence immoral and illegal, and you haven't recognized it yet. How can this be?
Vladimir Putin: This is absolutely possible, and I'll tell you why. Because during the political changes and military conflict in the former Yugoslavia, the United Nations Court decided on Kosovo (I can give you a quote), saying explicitly (I read aloud to your viewers and listeners): “The consent of the country's central authorities is not mandatory in determining questions of sovereignty”. This is how the United Nations Court commented on the events in Kosovo, and now he says…
Armin Wolf: There were some very clear conditions there that were not met in Crimea. This is what all international observers say.
Vladimir Putin: Which?
Armin Wolf: There is no one who would recognize that vote, there is no one who would recognize the annexation.
Vladimir Putin: His arguments seem very unconvincing, because no one must recognize the will of the citizens residing in a certain area. This is fully in accordance with the decision of the United Nations Court. There is no other interpretation, but some look for ways to interpret that situation differently.
Armin Wolf: I can take you to your word?
Vladimir Putin: Try it.
Armin Wolf: If yes, then apparently in Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia could also organize a referendum and secede from Russia? Or organize an Islamic caliphate in its territory?
Vladimir Putin: Effectively, the extremists of al-Qaida they wanted to wrest this territory from the Russian Federation and form a caliphate from the Black Sea to the Caspian Sea. I don't think Austria and Europe would have been happy about that, or that anything good would ever come of it. But the Chechen people made a completely different decision during the vote and finally signed the agreement with the Russian Federation after discussion, after all the bloodshed. The Russian Federation also had to make a very difficult decision to give Chechnya and many other regions a status that determines high autonomy in the Russian Federation. In the end, this was the decision of the Chechen people, and we are very happy with that and we stick to those agreements. Incidentally, the same could be done in Ukraine on the Donbas. Because this hasn't been done yet? So Ukraine should not limit the use of foreign minority languages, meaning not only Russian, but also Romanian, Hungarian and Polish. They don't seem to discuss it much in Europe, but it is a modern reality.
Armin Wolf: The last question about Ukraine. Do you think that the Ukraine problem will be solved if it declares itself a neutral country like Sweden or Austria and does not join NATO?
Vladimir Putin: This is one of the problems, but not the only one. I have already mentioned the limited use of the native languages ​​of ethnic minorities. Ukraine has adopted the Law on Languages, which was also criticized in Europe, but it is in force. This largely complicates the situation in Ukraine. But I will remember you, and these are the things that very few know, than the ideologists of Ukrainian independence, Ukrainian nationalists, they insisted on the creation of a sovereign Ukrainian state, independent from Russia, already in 19 th century. But many of them spoke about the need to maintain good relations with Russia, to form an independent Ukrainian state on federative principles, and so on. Already in the 19th century. Today, I would say that it is one of the most delicate internal issues of Ukraine. And Ukraine does it itself. On neutral status, this issue rests with the Ukrainian people and leadership. For us, for Russia, the important thing is that there are no military structures in Ukraine that threaten our security, such as new missile defense systems aimed at countering our nuclear potential. This is really important to us, I tell you frankly. But in the end, this is the choice of the Ukrainian people and the country's legitimately elected authorities.
Armin Wolf: I would like to ask you a question about Syria before moving on to Russia. He says everyone is talking about the use of chemical weapons there, but the story was invented, given that al-Assad and his army do not have chemical weapons. Now there is proof that, although some of the attacks were actually carried out by terrorists, al-Assad's forces carried out the others, many in fact. However, Russia blocks the decision to extend the commission's work. Because he does it? Because he defends a regime that uses chemical weapons against its people?
Vladimir Putin: He just said there is universally accepted evidence that al-Assad used chemical weapons. Bene, not by everyone. Our experts say otherwise. For example, the case that led to the missile attacks against Syria with the alleged chemical attack in the city of Duma. Look. Syrian troops have liberated that area. We immediately suggested to our partners that the OPCW commission should go there, it is a unit of the United Nations, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. They headed to Syria and reached a neighboring country, I think Lebanon. But instead of waiting a day or two and allowing the commission to work on the site, the missile attack on Syria was carried out. Tell me, Please: this is the best way to guarantee the objectivity of what happened to you? I don't think so. I think it was an attempt to create conditions to make a thorough investigation impossible. This was it. Subsequently, we found people who admitted to having participated in staging the chemical attack. If you don't see it, it would be very useful for objectivity, so that its viewers can have an opinion on the matter. We found children and parents drenched in water and who said they didn't understand what was happening. We took them to The Hague to show them to everyone. Nobody wanted to listen to them. And then he tells me: “Everyone recognizes the use of chemical weapons”. Not all. We believe this is fake news, used as a pretext for the missile attack, a violation of international law. This was aggression against a sovereign state. Whoever ordered an attack against a sovereign state? The UN Security Council? No. At that time, cos'era? Aggression.
Armin Wolf: Mr President, we shouldn't talk about Duma, because the investigations are still ongoing, but the international commission proved that the Syrian regime had used chemical weapons quite often before. And after that he blocked this commission in the UN.
Vladimir Putin: Because his work was hindered. The rocket attacks were carried out days before he began work in Duma. For what? This is the first point. Second. The case should be investigated objectively and we would recognize it. He just said there is evidence that militants used chemicals and chemical weapons. Who punished them? Tell me.
Armin Wolf: That same commission…
Vladimir Putin: No, I'm asking, who punished them? They received some punishment? The coalition attacked them immediately? I haven't seen anything like it.
Armin Wolf: Mr President, I'm told we're on our last legs. I would like to talk about Russia since there is very little time left.
Vladimir Putin: Right.

Armin Wolf: In the electoral race of 2012, promised to significantly improve the quality of life in Russia by 2020. However, in the following years, economic growth remained rather weak, below two percent. Wages have fallen over the past two years and the number of people below the poverty line has increased compared to 2012. He's really just looking for foreign policy challenges to justify domestic problems?
Vladimir Putin: I want everyone who thinks like this to calm down. Dal 2012, Russia has gone through some very difficult challenges to the economy. And this was not just related to so-called sanctions or restrictions. This is mainly due to a drastic drop in the prices of our traditional export products. Prices dropped by half. This affected budget revenue and, Therefore, on people's income. But we managed to do the main thing, and our colleagues, including senior IMF officials, they recognized this just recently at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum. We have achieved the main objective, that is, preserving and strengthening macroeconomic stability in the country. Effectively, wages have fallen a bit with people's incomes, but if you look at the beginning of our journey, the number of people below the poverty line is now half of 2000. Half that amount. Between the 2012 and the 2016 and in 2017 the figure has increased, but now it is lowering. The inflation rate was 12,5%, almost the 13%, and now it is the lowest in modern Russian history – 2,5%. Our gold and foreign exchange reserves are growing. After the collapse I mentioned, stable economic growth has begun to show itself. Yes, he is modest at the moment (1,5 percentage) but fixed investments grow at 4,4 percentage, which guarantees further economic growth. Foreign direct investment has almost doubled. Like I said, both the gold and foreign currency reserves of the Central Bank and government reserves are growing. We have created excellent conditions for the next steps of economic development, which we will definitely do.
Armin Wolf: He has been President or Prime Minister since 18 years. Some say he turned a country moving toward democracy into an authoritarian system, who is a “tsar”. It is true?
Vladimir Putin: No, It is not true. It is false and completely detached from reality because Russia is a democracy and we all live under the Constitution. And our Constitution says (just like the Austrian Constitution, I think) that the President cannot serve more than two consecutive terms. Here's why, after two legitimate terms, I left the position, I did not try to change the Constitution and continued to play another role, as Prime Minister of the Russian Federation. After that, come on, I'm back in the 2012, I ran for president and won the elections. A presidential term in Russia is six years, I think also in Austria. Voter turnout in the last elections was almost 70%. This is almost half of all Russian citizens. International observers did not seriously criticize the organization of the elections or the election results. Therefore, there is no doubt that democracy has taken hold in Russia. It is in our interest that the country follows a democratic path of development and it will do so. The same goes for other elections, municipal and regional. Hundreds of elections take place across the country and invariably bring success to the political forces that win the trust of the people.